180: Why Focusing on Farming Holds the Key to Real Success in Vertical Agriculture

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So Andrew Volpetti, Business Development Director for North America at Red

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Horticulture, thank you so much for joining me on the Vertical Farming Podcast. Thank you

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very much, sir. It's absolutely awesome to be here on the computer,

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and it was great seeing you less than a week ago at Indoor Ag Con,

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which was an absolute success, I would say, this year, and

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once again reinvigorated, I think, every attendee.

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Yeah, I think what's interesting in seeing some of the

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follow-ups of people posting on LinkedIn afterwards,

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the tone was a bit more subdued and maybe

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somber, but everybody was appreciating it and

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loving it. So a lot of the hype was gone, a lot of the

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inflated claims, more of the reality of what's happening

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in the vertical farming space in terms of the focus on

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farming and not technology. Yes. And I think that was

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the big takeaway. I mean, I think they let the cat out of the bag.

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It's a secret. It's farming, not tech. And I couldn't agree more with that sentiment.

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Having the privilege of being a gardener, farmer, food

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producer, crop caretaker. That's what got us here.

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That's why we all do this. It's for the plants, not necessarily

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the tech, but we need the tech to grow the plants. It's

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a heck of a catch-22. I think it was an

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important prioritization on the farming, as it

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should be, with the tech supporting what's happening

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either in the greenhouses or in the vertical farms.

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And I think a lot of the hype bubble, which

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did pop, and everyone using that trough of

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disillusionment graph ad nauseam, I think it was good to

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see. And I think everyone is appreciating it more. So

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I think— And I think it lets us get back to what we're all really

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good at, which is growing plants and focusing on

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delivering products to the market that we're proud of. Yeah, which

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is why I got into this. Yeah. And we want to give a

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shout out to Glenn Berman, who made the introduction. Glenn.

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Yeah, he's a good guy. We had him on the show previously, and he's a

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good connector as well. Absolutely the best. How did you connect with

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Glenn? So I've had the privilege of knowing Glenn for

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4 to 5 years now. Okay. And I do feel like he really took me

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under his wing. I think having the ability to work

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closely with him in my previous career. I was at a distribution

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company, Hydrofarm, where I spent 15 and a half

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wonderful years. Glen kind of got rolled into that fold with GroTainer, and

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I was already doing quite a bit with container farming, container growers,

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working with some of the other larger people that were in the

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space, you know, and some of the others that are still in the

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space and getting to do it. Glen and I have a lot of

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strong similarities in work ethic, in the

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ability to look at a problem and possibly find a solution that

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not everybody else saw. And I'm not always saying we have the same solution, but

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we both were willing to get outside of the box and look what we could

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put in that box and make people successful, because that's what we both care

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about, is the success of our clients, because that's how we really

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measure ourselves. Very well put. So let's rewind the clock back a

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little bit. What was your first foray into

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CEA? Okay, that's a rewind. So I would

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say my first real agricultural

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experience, I had been working at a landscaping company. I think a lot of us

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start our stories that way, and they kind of noticed I had a

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knack for more along the lines of landscape architecture.

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And at the time, at the end of high school going into college, I thought

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that was pretty cool. I also was not the strongest science

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student, so I kind of knew that that wasn't going to be my path, but

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I knew I had a passion for plants. I made it all the way through

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undergrad with taking every science class I

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could regarding plant physiology, everything

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except for the chemistry classes. I was never a chemistry whiz, but all of the

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bios and all of that, and thoroughly enjoyed it. I did

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technically grow up a country boy. We had very large

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outdoor food production at my parents' house. My mom was an

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avid gardener, a very early— well, early, I mean,

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the rhododendron clubs. She had always been in a rhododendron society.

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So we'd always have the roadies come by, you know, at least once a year

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to inspect the rhododendron. The property I grew up on had

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rhododendrons that dated back to the early 1900s.

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Obviously, my mom did not plant those, but she was a— and still is

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a steward of those plants. I've had the privilege of

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working, as I said, at Hydrofarm for 15+ years. I have

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worked with a multitude of crops, whether it was leafies,

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lettuces, micros, medical plants, food

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production. I've been very fortunate. I have a strong

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backbone on understanding of horticulture.

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You know, where I find myself today is a little bit

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new, maybe for all of us in the CEA. I've developed— I

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think I have a superpower. I'm ADHD and dyslexic, but one of the

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positives of ADHD, or at least I find it as a positive, is

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hyperfixation. And I would say for probably the past month plus,

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I've been utterly hyperfixated on strawberry production. I

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have done quite a deep dive. I did attend every single seminar on

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strawberries at Indoor Ag, and I absolutely learned. I

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took detailed notes, and then I've kind of consolidated my notes

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and really trying to understand how we can

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just transition an outdoor to an

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indoor. And I do believe it's happening. People are doing it.

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And I think, you know, the tomato space has been obviously

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very populated for some time. Lettuce is

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another great indoor crop, but it's also very well staffed. So

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I think for me right now, my focus is strawberry production

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and understanding how to bring it indoors. Specifically,

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you know, controlled environmental agriculture is very near and dear to me. Yeah,

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you're replicating sunlight, and I work for a lighting company, so

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I feel like I'm in a great seat right now. We'll definitely get

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into that. Where'd you grow up? I grew up in Wilkes-Barre, Scranton,

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Pennsylvania. So if you've ever seen The Office— oh yeah, it's a

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lot like that. And it sounds like there was some— that

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early connection to plants and to food and farming. Tell

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me a little bit about— a little bit more about that. Certainly. Well, one of

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the interesting things about Wilkes-Barre-Scranton is we're on the

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Susquehanna River, which is directly

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connected into the Chesapeake Bay. And I have been

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a lifetime member of the Chesapeake Watershed Association, Ducks

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Unlimited, avid outdoors person. But, you know,

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really being a steward of the earth where the town I came from,

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it's a mining town. It was what built this community. My

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grandfather was a miner. I'm a proud coal cracker. And that being

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said, a lot of the mining has

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adversely affected ecosystems. At one point, oysters were almost completely

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extinct in the Chesapeake Bay. Thankfully, they're back now. Thankfully, we've

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stabilized that ecosystem. But being cognizant of the

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watershed lands and things of that nature is what really kind of pulled me

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into agriculture and horticulture. You need the plants or you're going to

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erode the soil, you're going to pollute the river, and it's all downstream

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from there. I think that's a lot of things that people

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hopefully are becoming more aware of, and it feels like it's taken— I

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mean, I'm thinking about Rachel Carson's book Silent Spring, right? That's going back

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to what, '60s or '70s? And that was like the warning of what's

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happening, and it probably got worse after that. One right around there is Who Killed

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Cock Robin, which was the DDT, which was the pesticides being

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sprayed on plants, killing all the birds, causing— yeah, these all had

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impacts on our lives one way or another. Yeah. So it sounds like that

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really honed and developed in you this connection

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to the land, to the water, appreciation for it, which

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seems like it just paved the path for you to be in

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food-related business. Absolutely. I mean, hydroponics is

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something I truly care about. I do think that we need to preserve our water

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supply. I think that we need to be cognizant of what we're

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putting and feeding to these plants in indoor facilities and making sure that

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we're picking the right path forward for future generations as

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well. I mean, nobody wants glyphosate on everything. I understand there's a

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time and a place, but please. Yeah, for sure.

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Yeah, there seems to be more of an awareness too, and even, you know, people

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thinking about the experiences they have when they go to places like Italy and they

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have as much pizzas as they can, or France and eat as many

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croissants, which I've done both of, and it doesn't have the

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effect of like the wheat that we eat here and I've been dabbling in

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some sourdough making as well recently. So I'm looking for those

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heritage blends. And I found a company based in Minnesota

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actually that had to go back to

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square one and made these heirloom seeds. And now they're growing heirloom.

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And the guy had some— the founder had some celiac issues and

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he's with this new flour and this new blend that he created. He's not having

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a problem. So kind of speaks a little bit to what we're putting in the

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ground. Volume. And I was an early proponent of,

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I understand celiacs, I understand people with sensitivities to that,

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but it's glyphosate in my personal, personal opinion. And I am by no

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means a doctor. Yeah, for sure. So in your

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time with Hydrofarm, what do you think was the biggest takeaway

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for you with that experience that you had there? What were some learnings?

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Absolutely. I mean, I was incredibly fortunate. I started there

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in 2010. I got to learn from

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the inside all the way out. Started in southern

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Florida, worked my way up to larger territories, turned territories

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around, got new territories. I have to say, Peter

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Wordenberg is an absolute wonderful, wonderful man and

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somebody I will respect for the rest of my life. He did more for

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that organization and all the leaders to come. But Peter is somebody that I'll

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always respect, and he kind of gave me the ability to

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continue to grow in my role. Pushed me, expected higher

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expectations, which I always tried to rise above and was

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very fortunate. Hydrofarm had a bunch of acquisitions. I was able to

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be on the acquisition teams for a few of these projects.

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Before Hydrofarm, I did also receive an MBA. So that I

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also felt like was fortunate, was in marketing and entrepreneurship. And I think

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we're all entrepreneurs one way or another. And, you know,

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when I was starting out, it was B2B brick-and-mortar hydroponic retail

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sales. So really, I don't want to ever think of my, I was one of

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those kids that knew they wanted to be a sales rep. My family had a

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motorcycle dealership growing up, and it was always the coolest when one of the reps

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was coming to town. You always got to go for a dinner. You got to

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see the latest and greatest. So, you know, whenever Honda was coming to town,

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whatever I was doing, if my best friend was like, hey, let's go. Nope, Honda

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rep's coming. I got to go to dinner with my dad. We're going to sit.

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We're going to— and I would— and he'd always show up in either, you know,

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if it was summertime, he'd show up in a new Honda truck with a dirt

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bike in the back or ride his Goldwing. Or it was just one of those,

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like, even at, you know, 20 years old, I was like, yeah, this is it,

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this is the coolest opportunity. Burned out on powersports

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industry and, you know, found my way into the hydroponic

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sector and kind of got to do that. I got to be the guy that

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went from state to state and showed up and hopefully made some positive

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impacts. I believe I did. And I— there are quite a few clients I'm still

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in touch with to this day that are personal friends and, you know, their

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kids are, you know, now 15 years older. And it's

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cool to actually be able to connect with some of these people and continue our

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conversations like nothing's ever changed. So I've been very fortunate.

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That's great. The great story, too. And there is something about sales roles.

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There's a fine line sometimes to get to that sleazy salesperson, the used car

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salesperson, but the other one who understands the importance of building

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relationships and building networks. And long-term

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partnerships. And I think when they're done well, and it's something I've had to

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learn as an entrepreneur when I moved from my, you know, I was in corporate

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20-plus years, got shown the door, and then I had to figure out

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entrepreneurship, and which they don't teach you. So you gotta pay for

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coaches and figure out like websites and landing pages and email

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lists and all the things that like you don't have a need for. But then

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sales is one of those skills, like, and when people do it and they do

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it well, they really shine and they really stand out. And that's probably, you know,

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what attracted you to this guy. Oh, absolutely. And I mean, I'm one of those

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fortunate, I got to go to Honda and Yamaha sales school all growing up. I

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mean, highlight of my getting to sit and listen to somebody

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lecture and hype you for his sales was I'm a diehard Notre Dame

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fan and Yamaha brought Lou Holtz in and I want to say

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like '99 and I got to watch Lou Holtz

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get up on stage and get a room full of dealers

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excited excited to go sell motorcycles. I could have torn a

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table in half, I was so pumped and excited to see my— one of my

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all-time coaching heroes up on stage, you know, yelling at us. I was like, this

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is the best ever! That's so great.

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So then let's pivot to RED. How did that come about?

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Well, 15 years is long anywhere, and I really wanted

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to focus on what truly makes me happy. And I

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was thinking, you know, is it substrate? Is it nutrients? Is it

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What aspect of our industry do I want to jump to a different industry? And

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a dear family friend and I were talking and, you know, very successful businessman

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but doesn't know our industry too well. He's like, what aspect makes you the happiest?

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I said lighting. He goes, well, I don't know your industry, but are there just

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lighting companies you can go work for? Sometimes the simplest and

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most obvious answer is it. And I started doing some research,

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started looking at companies, and I wanted to find somebody that was not

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necessarily in the US. And I read and I

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kind of found each other. They had been searching LinkedIn and

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one of the founders came across my profile right about the time I had come

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across their website and it was almost too

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perfect not to work. We talked, we had more

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similarities than we realized in common, and it just felt

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like the logical next progression for my career. Dynamic

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lighting was something that I was vaguely familiar with. I knew

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there were a lot of changes in LEDs, and the one thing I knew I

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didn't want to do is just be a box pusher. I wanted to believe in

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the product. I wanted to understand the product, and I wanted

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to find solutions for people growing crops that

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hadn't been presented to them. That's where I think the value lies.

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If you have something that's unique and different, that's going to

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make their day easier, make their crop healthier,

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allow them more return on their investment,

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for me, that's a win. That checks all the boxes I was looking for. So

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I'm curious, what was the learning curve like? Because coming out of like

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hydroponics and then moving into LEDs, and it feels like it gets more

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technical. It does. Yeah. I will say I was

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fortunate at Hydrofarm. I got to be quite involved in

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our lighting solutions. I had been selling multiple

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LEDs brands and house brands and others for

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quite some time. That being said, I

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absolutely was impressed once I kind of sat down and went

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through Red's offering. It's a 4-channel dynamic lighting

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solution that just literally endless potentials

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for endless crop varietals. It really

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intrigued me on how they're able to manage energy

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as well as The United States does not have

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some of the same constraints that they face in Europe with

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kilowatts per hour surges in pricing and spikes. So

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we're quite fortunate here. But that's one of the features that red

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has is it can monitor and manage energy costs

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based on kilowatt per hour. So, you know, if there's going to be a

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spike increase, we could actually adjust the spectral

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parameters and make sure that the red light is still

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focusing, which is the most usable in

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photosynthesis for the plants. So, you know, we could actually turn

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channels off and allow for light to still be used at a lower

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electrical cost. Okay, so for the

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listeners who are not familiar with RED and the history, can you

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kind of give a bit of a synopsis of that? So RED is

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an 8-year-old company. It was started by 2

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gentlemen, Luis and Yacine. They

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have founded this through their grad school work. They were,

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are both engineers, electrical and mechanical. And then

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they have their third friend who is a computer engineer. All 3 of them

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pretty much founded this company together. They've been building it brick

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by brick. They've got about 10 million square foot under management in Europe.

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Quite impressive. Some of the world's largest young plant

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producers, some of the largest greenhouses are also

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using them. Really, they look for the right customer

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that's open to new technology, that's willing to

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listen and learn with us. It's very unique and it

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is very efficient and effective. And we're just

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fortunate for every client we have and every client to come. I mean, it

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really is a dream come true getting to work here. So imagine for

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farms, it's a lot of it is dependent on where they're, what

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they're growing, how big they want to grow, what they

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currently have in terms of a tech stack, energy considerations,

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location. So when you think about the current

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clients, current clients with Red, are there consistent

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patterns with people for whom like the tech stack is a good fit? Certainly. And

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I would say right now our 85% of our business is done in high

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wire crop production. Cucumbers is an absolutely

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fantastic example of something we do exceptionally well. Okay. As

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well as tomato production. I mean, tomatoes, the standard

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recipe of 5,590 is what almost everyone

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pushes. We've actually been able to increase yield bricks and

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reduce energy consumption using our own proprietary recipes that you get

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access to. On day one of deployment. That's one of the other really

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cool things. Working for a French company, slightly different than

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US, and I don't like using the term siloed, but

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responsibility chain. So when you use RED,

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I'm your salesperson, but we have an IT department that's going to work

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with you. We use a proprietary wire mesh network. So

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all of our fixtures can communicate. 3,000 fixtures can all make

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an adjustment within 10 seconds. Americans. We have— it's unbelievable.

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We also have an agronomic team that's dedicated

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to crop support regardless of your crop. They actually have an R&D

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facility in Nantes, France, where they do trials

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on multiple varietals, and they change it sporadically or as clients

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requested. Hey, I think I'm gonna do lavender, what are you seeing here? And

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that was something we were able to do. Cucumbers, strawberries— they have

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a strawberry chamber where they're actually doing work and have been doing

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work for almost 8 years on strawberries, tomatoes, cucumbers.

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One thing I did learn recently, and I'm— you never ask a question you don't

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know the answer to, but we're not lawyers. I'm surprised at the amount of

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greenhouses I've toured recently that are pepper producers that are

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not using supplemental lighting. That was one for me that I just kind

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of went, oh, that's interesting. And I still haven't found it out. So if anyone

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wants to comment why, and you could educate me, I'd greatly appreciate it. Yeah.

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So when you think about who is a good fit for RED and you think

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about prep work or things companies should be

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considering before, maybe even before having a conversation or

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even considering like a revamp of their LEDs or

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an installation of their LEDs, what are some of those things they should be thinking

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of early on in this conversation? Great question.

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I think they need to be ready to listen. And I

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think, you know, when someone comes with something new, it's, it's hard to

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listen, especially when it's a shock to everybody's system.

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I think there are some ideas around

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running high PPFD. You know, why would you change? Why would

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Dynamic change anything? Like, are you running a high

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PPFD? I have single-ended. I'm putting photons on

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plant. Why do I need to do it? Well, High PPFD

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alone doesn't necessarily create a balance. If your night

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temperatures are high, your respiration offsets gains.

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Are you adjusting your calcium for your fruit quality?

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It's dynamic steering. And, you know, we need to understand

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the totality of the house, the structure, the room that we're working in,

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because a spectrum shift is

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phenomenal, but we also need to

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work in conjunction with your irrigation, with your nutrition.

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It's not just photon count. You're synchronizing

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psychology and it all has to come together to work

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together. We want the whole process to come together for you

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to be successful. And that's why you have access to the agro teams,

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Rafael and the whole organization. And, you know, these

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guys are all over Europe all the time, guys and gals. They'll

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jump on planes at a moment's notice just to fly out to, you

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know, Spain, Germany, Portugal. Hey, we've got,

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you know, some new Eastern European countries. We're targeting everywhere.

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And, you know, if our agronomists need to fly out there to take a look

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and make sure that everything's dialed in properly, they're willing to do that.

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No real additional cost to the customers because customer success is paramount.

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That's great to hear. How would you differentiate the thought

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process for a farm that is doing a brand new installation

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or maybe getting a new glasshouse up and running or a new vertical farm up

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and running versus someone whose maybe current

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LED system is a bit long in the tooth. And so they're starting to think

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about like maybe we need an upgrade and should we look at red? Absolutely. And

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a couple of things immediately jump to mind and I feel like a realtor right

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now, but location, location, location. It's going to be

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obviously dependent upon rebates available.

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And, you know, one of the things in certain instances this does come

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up, are you current with your electrical provider? These

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simple little things, because if you're not current, it's not going to get you out

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of the hole. You need to be current for rebates. Once you're current

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and with some of our solutions in certain states, you actually

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get monthly rebates as well due to our

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lack of pull on the grid where we can do certain things. Also, you

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know, cogeneration is a great solution as well. But, you know, it really

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comes down to is this the right fit for your farm, your

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staff, your crop? And only the owners or the

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day-to-day managers could answer that honestly. You know, I think everybody wants the

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newest, latest, greatest Ferrari, but if you haven't driven in

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15 years, let's take it a little slow. Can you dive into

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the rebates a little bit? Because I think maybe folks that are just getting started,

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they don't understand. Is it a state-by-state issue? Is

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it Is it a countrywide? Oh, it is way more complicated than that. Find a

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good rebate company. I mean, I have my preferred, but they're all

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third party. They're all fiduciary

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responsible to work on behalf

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of the consumer, the person purchasing it. Yeah. So that I

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think is wonderful. And it really matters within each

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state because, you know, there are a multitude of electrical providers

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in each state. So, you know, just because you're in Columbus,

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Ohio, and your next farm could be, you know,

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down in Zanesville, you could have two different electrical providers, which would be different

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rebate calculations. That being said, knowing

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your rebate there, you know, rebates don't necessarily make it

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free. Rebates alleviate the cost.

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So you still may have to lay out cash at the beginning, and you will

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recoup You know, state by state, provider by provider,

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50, 60, 80, 100. We have seen north of

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100. And where that gets very interesting and, you know, one of

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the things that you have to talk about is, look, you're tearing something down

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and putting something up. There's a labor cost associated with that.

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Your facility is going to be down for a minimum of 2 to 3 days.

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Let's not deny the undeniable. So there

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are costs associated with that. And certain states allow you

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to account for that, which I think is

402

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incredible. And in certain markets, we've had that pleasure.

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We're getting ready to deploy about 660 fixtures

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into Illinois, and it's absolutely

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working out wonderfully for the garden, for the facility that's going to be taking it.

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The problem is it's every week is a harvest, so it's

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going to take 10 rooms, 10 weeks, and they are going to be out of

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pocket cash for 10 weeks and then they'll get paid back in full, but they'll

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get some of the labor costs. Back. So the lights basically come in

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free, labor gets mitigated, and they will have a state-of-the-art

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facility where they'll be able to adjust spectrum

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from propagation all the way through harvest, final

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harvest. And I think that's one of the other big points too, is when you're

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doing these complete overhauls, you've got

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to look at the facility in total. Don't just say, hey, I'm going to do

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Flower Bay 3 and expect that you know, everything you're

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doing and, you know, from prop to veg into flower,

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there are going to be some differences and some nuances and some adjustments, you know,

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the levers you'll have to pull. And at a high level, just like if

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someone was looking at the concept of rebates who's not familiar

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with the industry and how things work, is it essentially just the state

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compensating or reimbursing the farm and based on what

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they're spending in electrical output or how, what? At a high level,

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we'd have to get the highest level. It's not even state, it's the actual

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electrical provider because they're usually private companies.

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And yeah, they're basically going to say, you know, you've got X number of

427

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fixtures pulling X number of watts or amperage.

428

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This should be what your electrical drain on the grid is. Well,

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if you go to a higher efficiency fixture, which should be

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less pull on the actual system. Okay. Makes

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life a lot easier for them. You know, it's very interesting. And the easiest way

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it was explained to me, the very first electrical grid in the United

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States is in Atlantic City, New Jersey. Thomas Edison

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did it down there, and that is the oldest grid in America.

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The rebates in southern New Jersey are quite

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nice because it's cheaper to give rebates than to

437

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build a new grid. How has

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LED technology evolved? Because I started the podcast in

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2020 and I was learning a lot about the industry and

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LED technology specifically. It must keep

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evolving quickly with like innovations. And I'm curious what you've seen in your

442

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time there. I've been fortunate. I've seen LEDs progress

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from very early COBs, the blurple light that we

444

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all talked about an eon ago, to phosphor

445

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coating to lens versus non-lens, different types of lens

446

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optics, optic versus non-optic, to where we sit today

447

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with dynamic lighting. And there are plenty of people doing wonderful dynamic lighting

448

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solutions. You know, look, I think there's enough space for all of us. It's,

449

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you know, some people like pepperoni, some people like sausage, some people

450

00:27:30,287 --> 00:27:33,032

want cauliflower pizza. That's cool. I support all pizza.

451

00:27:34,765 --> 00:27:38,602

LEDs, but they're ever evolving. I mean, I think— I don't think there'd

452

00:27:38,618 --> 00:27:41,819

ever be a point. I mean, we just brought out new fixtures. We're bringing out

453

00:27:41,932 --> 00:27:45,701

new technology all the time. We're upgrading what we currently

454

00:27:45,798 --> 00:27:49,648

have. One of the very important things for North America is

455

00:27:49,809 --> 00:27:53,519

DLC, Design Light Consortium. Spectacular group, Glaze

456

00:27:53,551 --> 00:27:57,309

Institute, you know, everybody. It's a bunch of very academically

457

00:27:57,246 --> 00:28:00,827

oriented, very precise, very third party.

458

00:28:00,956 --> 00:28:04,732

I respect them immensely. And to be eligible

459

00:28:04,764 --> 00:28:08,529

for rebates, you have to have DLC. There's some other parameters, 5-year warranty.

460

00:28:09,066 --> 00:28:12,775

Certain level of efficacy to be, you know, able to

461

00:28:12,775 --> 00:28:16,532

play in the games. And, you know, in different parts of the world, they

462

00:28:16,532 --> 00:28:20,306

have their own set standards. That just happens to be North America.

463

00:28:20,418 --> 00:28:23,629

And I happen to be the North American biz dev guy. So for me, that's

464

00:28:24,015 --> 00:28:27,788

paramount. And we did just get our newest

465

00:28:27,788 --> 00:28:30,887

and latest greatest DLC listings. It went exceptionally well.

466

00:28:31,497 --> 00:28:35,206

It's a multi-bar fixture for our indoor Wonderful for

467

00:28:35,238 --> 00:28:38,769

anybody doing indoor propagation or cultivation. It's

468

00:28:38,769 --> 00:28:42,557

3.15 efficacy. I mean, it's a phenomenal fixture. Draco,

469

00:28:43,119 --> 00:28:46,699

we have under canopy lighting where it, you know, 3.6. I mean,

470

00:28:46,731 --> 00:28:49,829

it's spectacular. And doing all of this

471

00:28:49,925 --> 00:28:53,601

technology and all these upgrades pushed other areas.

472

00:28:53,713 --> 00:28:57,341

And we have other technology in Europe that we're going to be getting

473

00:28:57,389 --> 00:29:01,113

DLC'd. It's a process. You have to submit it. It goes into Agoniosphere.

474

00:29:01,177 --> 00:29:03,986

They do all types of lab tests to hook it up to electronics to make

475

00:29:03,986 --> 00:29:07,787

sure that your claims are accurate. Okay. We're confident they are, and sometimes they

476

00:29:07,851 --> 00:29:11,250

even come out better based on how they test it. That's a win.

477

00:29:11,827 --> 00:29:15,257

And, you know, so once we get all those, we'll be bringing that technology

478

00:29:15,353 --> 00:29:18,944

over. The new technology from Red, and I don't want to get too deep into

479

00:29:19,056 --> 00:29:22,567

it, but we can throw square footprints. I don't know anybody else that can say

480

00:29:22,567 --> 00:29:25,949

that. Cover a 4x8 area with a square perfectly.

481

00:29:26,350 --> 00:29:30,021

How many of you have 4x8 tables in your facilities? It kind of

482

00:29:30,021 --> 00:29:33,853

makes sense. Yeah. Kind of thinking ahead there. Is

483

00:29:33,885 --> 00:29:37,542

there a nice win you had recently with a client without obviously getting

484

00:29:37,558 --> 00:29:40,942

into specifics if you're not able to share, but, you know, I'm sure

485

00:29:40,942 --> 00:29:44,792

if you think of— So I did just get to come. So I had

486

00:29:44,792 --> 00:29:48,593

a wonderful week last week. And it's more of a team win. I

487

00:29:48,641 --> 00:29:52,106

was not on board. I started with Red in August.

488

00:29:52,715 --> 00:29:56,020

The deal was pretty much finalized by the time I got on, but we got

489

00:29:56,020 --> 00:29:59,516

to go up to British Columbia, Vancouver area and

490

00:29:59,548 --> 00:30:03,156

tour a very large strawberry greenhouse. And we

491

00:30:03,156 --> 00:30:06,732

literally left Indoor Ag Con on Thursday at like 9:00. We flew out of

492

00:30:06,764 --> 00:30:09,970

Vegas, landed at midnight, and, you know,

493

00:30:10,195 --> 00:30:13,706

9:00 AM we were in the car on our way to a strawberry

494

00:30:13,738 --> 00:30:17,362

facility and got to walk about. It was an 8-hectare

495

00:30:17,410 --> 00:30:20,969

facility. I'd say 3-ish are

496

00:30:21,049 --> 00:30:24,801

strawberry, the rest are cucumbers, but absolutely

497

00:30:24,865 --> 00:30:28,697

beautiful. Really, really impressive work that those guys

498

00:30:28,713 --> 00:30:32,117

are doing. I'm sure there'll be a press release coming out soon and I'll make

499

00:30:32,117 --> 00:30:35,425

sure I tag you in it. It's very exciting and really has

500

00:30:35,859 --> 00:30:39,618

gotten me excited more so about strawberries. I've had a few other

501

00:30:39,634 --> 00:30:43,473

wins as well. In Michigan, we have some early adapters,

502

00:30:43,826 --> 00:30:47,328

phenomenal group there. It's an MSO that is

503

00:30:47,520 --> 00:30:51,054

continuing to grow, continuing to expand, and

504

00:30:51,134 --> 00:30:54,443

they're deploying us into the Michigan market, the

505

00:30:54,443 --> 00:30:58,056

Minnesota market. And then another market that they'll be entering very

506

00:30:58,056 --> 00:31:01,717

shortly. So really wonderful there. It's, you know, people

507

00:31:01,797 --> 00:31:05,314

buy from people and 50 years of relationships and

508

00:31:05,892 --> 00:31:09,729

doing the right thing and being honest pays off. I mean, the good guys

509

00:31:09,906 --> 00:31:13,743

and gals do win and just need to stay the course. That is

510

00:31:13,776 --> 00:31:17,404

nice to hear. What else was a takeaway for you overall? You know, we talked

511

00:31:17,404 --> 00:31:21,097

about, you know, reducing the hype at Indoor Ag Con, but every time I go,

512

00:31:21,130 --> 00:31:24,929

It's nice. I've been going probably now for a

513

00:31:24,929 --> 00:31:28,664

bit of a slap, gravitates. And I was thrilled with the time we got. And

514

00:31:28,920 --> 00:31:32,399

yeah, it was just awesome watching you work. Thank you. But no, I would

515

00:31:32,399 --> 00:31:36,134

say I think it was refreshing for

516

00:31:36,150 --> 00:31:39,565

people to truly talk about plants again,

517

00:31:39,677 --> 00:31:43,492

not the next round, next VC who's coming

518

00:31:43,524 --> 00:31:47,099

in. You know, there was no doom and gloom. Nobody really went out of

519

00:31:47,613 --> 00:31:51,274

there are a lot of these facilities that are no more, but, you know, it

520

00:31:51,290 --> 00:31:55,127

wasn't the week before again where everybody's showing up and it's all condolences,

521

00:31:55,159 --> 00:31:58,788

sorry, which, you know, in years past

522

00:31:58,836 --> 00:32:02,626

we've all had to do that. Like, oh wow, that just came out. Yeah.

523

00:32:02,931 --> 00:32:05,965

Where's that guy? Oh, he's not going to be attending this year because—

524

00:32:06,881 --> 00:32:10,445

or he has hat in hand, which is even worse. Yeah, for sure.

525

00:32:10,975 --> 00:32:13,818

So I like to ask this question. It's a bit of kind of helps you

526

00:32:13,866 --> 00:32:16,726

think a little bit about what's on your plate recently and what you're working on.

527

00:32:16,839 --> 00:32:20,181

But what is a tough question you've had to ask yourself recently?

528

00:32:20,695 --> 00:32:24,214

Time management. It's hard. And I think I kind of already said it,

529

00:32:24,311 --> 00:32:28,103

ADHD. I mean, time management for me is difficult, but I'm also

530

00:32:28,151 --> 00:32:31,429

fortunate. I'm also part of a very small piece

531

00:32:32,249 --> 00:32:35,607

of a new architecture group and very

532

00:32:35,639 --> 00:32:39,062

excited to be doing some things there. RED is

533

00:32:39,078 --> 00:32:42,530

100% my focus, but you know, whether it's an

534

00:32:42,690 --> 00:32:46,496

architecture project, finding new leads there, whether

535

00:32:46,496 --> 00:32:49,659

it's, you know, I do have a passion project I'm involved in

536

00:32:50,173 --> 00:32:53,465

that is for the pharmaceutical industry,

537

00:32:54,011 --> 00:32:57,720

which has to do with people with disabilities being able to

538

00:32:57,720 --> 00:33:01,558

be self-reliant, being able to take their own medicine. You know,

539

00:33:01,574 --> 00:33:05,331

that torquing motion on a pill bottle is actually very difficult

540

00:33:05,331 --> 00:33:09,169

if you're arthritic or, you know, gosh forbid you're, you know, you're an amputee.

541

00:33:09,250 --> 00:33:12,968

PT, you know, you're now relying on either using your chin or finding

542

00:33:12,968 --> 00:33:16,526

another mechanism to be able to take the meds throughout the course of the day.

543

00:33:17,360 --> 00:33:21,206

I can't— I'm not— this isn't even a plug, but it's a one-handed enclosure

544

00:33:21,767 --> 00:33:25,582

that you can open and get your meds out

545

00:33:25,646 --> 00:33:29,397

and be self-sufficient. That's great. It's one of those projects that once it

546

00:33:29,397 --> 00:33:32,859

came across my desk, it was too good not to be part of

547

00:33:32,859 --> 00:33:36,690

something making a positive impact. And it doesn't always have to

548

00:33:36,690 --> 00:33:39,820

be what you do, it's what care about too, which I think is important. That

549

00:33:39,820 --> 00:33:43,226

seems to be an underlying thread that I

550

00:33:43,595 --> 00:33:47,050

get from you in our time together and our conversation together and the stories you

551

00:33:47,050 --> 00:33:50,825

shared and what you shared about the past and how I saw you working the

552

00:33:50,825 --> 00:33:54,553

floors at Indoor AgCon. Where does that come from? I know the

553

00:33:54,585 --> 00:33:58,376

answer. It's almost embarrassing to say it out loud though. Being told you couldn't

554

00:33:58,457 --> 00:34:01,445

do something as a child. Oh, you're not going to be able to do that.

555

00:34:01,509 --> 00:34:04,883

Or that sounds like— I went to a private school growing up. Yeah.

556

00:34:05,060 --> 00:34:08,640

Dyslexia was difficult on me. And my school's

557

00:34:08,720 --> 00:34:12,525

requirement was to graduate 8th grade, you had to take 3 years of

558

00:34:12,573 --> 00:34:16,025

Latin. I was exempt from that because I was dyslexic. And I

559

00:34:16,186 --> 00:34:19,814

actually thought that was unfair. I wanted to take Latin. I wound up

560

00:34:19,814 --> 00:34:22,704

taking 8 years of Latin. Now, I'm not going to say I was an A

561

00:34:22,704 --> 00:34:26,493

student. I wasn't a B student. I was like a C-. But

562

00:34:26,862 --> 00:34:30,539

you know what? Dogged determination. Yeah. I think that pays.

563

00:34:30,971 --> 00:34:34,793

And I think it also helped me just realize, look, if you work hard,

564

00:34:35,628 --> 00:34:39,048

you put the time in, you learn, you really can

565

00:34:39,144 --> 00:34:42,516

achieve, you know, and I think my parents' work ethic, but you know,

566

00:34:42,918 --> 00:34:46,691

being told you can't do something is usually the greatest motivator for most people.

567

00:34:46,932 --> 00:34:50,368

For sure. Well, thank you for sharing that. I really appreciate

568

00:34:50,464 --> 00:34:54,141

that kind of peek into what makes you tick. And it sounds like, you

569

00:34:54,141 --> 00:34:57,498

know, everything that you've done from your early interest in hydro

570

00:34:57,610 --> 00:35:01,175

farms, the connections you've made, the mentors you've had. You

571

00:35:01,175 --> 00:35:04,177

mentioned a couple of people that have been instrumental in there, and it's so fascinating.

572

00:35:04,547 --> 00:35:07,726

Sometimes it's hard to measure our progress when we look back to yesterday or the

573

00:35:07,726 --> 00:35:10,985

week before, but sometimes we do have to look back at the 5-year, the 10

574

00:35:11,097 --> 00:35:14,710

years, like, oh yeah, like I have grown, and oh yeah, I did

575

00:35:14,710 --> 00:35:18,258

develop some new skills. Also, shout out to my wife. She has been an incredibly

576

00:35:18,258 --> 00:35:21,694

supportive human, and yeah, the reason I get out of bed every

577

00:35:21,710 --> 00:35:25,403

single days from my 6-year-old son that I would move

578

00:35:25,403 --> 00:35:28,823

heaven and earth for. And I think that also is pretty damn

579

00:35:28,871 --> 00:35:32,516

important in my life. That's very important. Well, yeah, I appreciate you sharing it. I'm

580

00:35:32,548 --> 00:35:35,486

really grateful that we've been able to connect and then you had some time to

581

00:35:35,518 --> 00:35:38,922

come on here and share the story and share the success you've been having with

582

00:35:38,954 --> 00:35:42,181

RED. I think it's, you know, we've, we talk a lot about all the different

583

00:35:42,181 --> 00:35:45,842

technologies and a lot of times it's helpful to have the backstory

584

00:35:46,436 --> 00:35:49,697

about, you know, not just like Pick this one tech and

585

00:35:49,905 --> 00:35:53,264

it'll make your farm that much better.

586

00:35:53,746 --> 00:35:57,409

But you mentioned the sales piece too. So it's almost like, hey, you're looking to—

587

00:35:57,843 --> 00:36:01,426

the sense that I get is with the work you're doing for RED, you're helping

588

00:36:01,458 --> 00:36:05,202

to build relationships, long-term partnerships.

589

00:36:05,250 --> 00:36:08,753

And I think that's really important. Yeah, yeah. People buy from people.

590

00:36:09,170 --> 00:36:12,496

Well, anything else that you're thinking about in terms of the future for RED or

591

00:36:12,545 --> 00:36:16,140

for the LED space that has you excited? Excited? A lot.

592

00:36:16,541 --> 00:36:19,539

I want to be able to

593

00:36:20,245 --> 00:36:24,029

help bring more crops to people in food deserts. Glenn's

594

00:36:24,094 --> 00:36:27,798

pretty big on that. I think that container farming is going to

595

00:36:27,798 --> 00:36:31,534

become a significantly larger role in the U.S. You know, the whole

596

00:36:31,550 --> 00:36:35,206

grow local, eat local movement's wonderful, but

597

00:36:35,784 --> 00:36:39,584

know your farmer, know your butcher, go plant some

598

00:36:39,584 --> 00:36:43,290

seeds in your own backyard. I mean, you know, with everything going on

599

00:36:43,403 --> 00:36:47,158

today, I'm not a crazy person, but having some

600

00:36:47,913 --> 00:36:51,460

vacuum-packed seeds is not a bad thing. Go buy,

601

00:36:51,765 --> 00:36:55,601

go buy, you know, non-GMO organic seeds that you

602

00:36:55,601 --> 00:36:59,148

can just have at a moment's notice. Yeah, it's going to take some time, but,

603

00:36:59,292 --> 00:37:02,935

you know, owning seeds makes me feel warm and fuzzy.

604

00:37:03,080 --> 00:37:06,643

That's great advice. Yeah, we're dabbling a little bit in that. We've got chickens now

605

00:37:07,012 --> 00:37:10,703

and we're doing some planting. We just had a nice harvest of garlic. That's awesome.

606

00:37:11,039 --> 00:37:14,356

So it's every— a little bit helps. And for this city boy, you know, grew

607

00:37:14,372 --> 00:37:17,753

up just outside New York and lived in New York City and lived in LA,

608

00:37:18,330 --> 00:37:21,904

it was a bit of a shift. But I've come to appreciate the

609

00:37:22,064 --> 00:37:24,804

ethic. And not that we have a farm, but people who grew up on a

610

00:37:24,804 --> 00:37:28,538

farm, and I've noticed it, like, you know, it's to a person,

611

00:37:29,195 --> 00:37:32,977

there's just a built-in work ethic about we just got to get

612

00:37:33,041 --> 00:37:36,776

up, got to get the work done. Eat sheep growing up? Ducks,

613

00:37:37,145 --> 00:37:40,950

dogs, cats, all types of critters. And yeah, it's one of those, you got

614

00:37:40,950 --> 00:37:44,418

to go, go clean the stalls and throw the hay and

615

00:37:45,012 --> 00:37:48,561

make sure the alfalfa— yeah, absolutely. It's one of those, you know, you kind of

616

00:37:48,561 --> 00:37:51,515

forget what you have done. And yeah, kind of nailed that. Yeah.

617

00:37:51,756 --> 00:37:55,288

Yeah. Well, thanks again, Andrew, for your time. I really enjoyed this conversation. I'm looking

618

00:37:55,288 --> 00:37:58,708

forward to building our relationship and our partnerships and

619

00:37:58,724 --> 00:38:02,433

appreciate everything you're doing, not only for, you know, the

620

00:38:02,433 --> 00:38:06,204

CEA space, but just everything you're doing on a personal front.

621

00:38:06,284 --> 00:38:09,863

That seems like your heart's in the right place. I appreciate our friendship and building

622

00:38:09,959 --> 00:38:13,104

this relationship. We got forward to many more. Thank you. Look forward to coming back.

623

00:38:13,843 --> 00:38:16,699

So the website is horticulture.red. Anywhere else you want to send folks?

624

00:38:16,956 --> 00:38:20,583

Horticulture.red is number one. And then if

625

00:38:20,711 --> 00:38:23,969

you are looking for any architecture, 2WR.

626

00:38:24,482 --> 00:38:28,285

And keep an eye out for SnapSlide. Hopefully we'll be at a pharmacy near

627

00:38:28,334 --> 00:38:31,938

you soon. It's in its infancy, but we're doing everything we can. Check them out

628

00:38:31,971 --> 00:38:35,738

on LinkedIn. It, it'll definitely bring a smile to your face. Okay. Make

629

00:38:35,738 --> 00:38:38,347

sure— give me those links. I'll make sure everything's in the show notes as well.

630

00:38:38,427 --> 00:38:41,712

I appreciate the time together. Thank you, guys. Thank you all. Bye.